1 00:00:21,910 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:25,510 it's the septic zone for the 18th of jun 3 00:00:32,709 --> 00:00:31,170 2011 episode number 139 Richardson is 4 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:32,719 here with you from Sydney Australia 5 00:00:42,590 --> 00:00:36,770 today's episode can only be described as 6 00:00:45,380 --> 00:00:42,600 mixed very mixed it's like a mishmash of 7 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:45,390 lots of different ideas all cobbled 8 00:00:50,540 --> 00:00:47,130 together we're going to start off with 9 00:00:53,740 --> 00:00:50,550 dr. Richie reports and a lecture she 10 00:00:59,569 --> 00:00:53,750 recorded by barry marshall all about 11 00:01:03,020 --> 00:00:59,579 ulcers yes ulcers really worth listening 12 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:03,030 to following that we have Phil cam who 13 00:01:08,719 --> 00:01:05,610 gave a talk at Sydney skeptics in the 14 00:01:12,709 --> 00:01:08,729 pub about scripture and ethics classes 15 00:01:15,230 --> 00:01:12,719 in state schools now for many years when 16 00:01:17,539 --> 00:01:15,240 I was going to school once a week for 17 00:01:19,669 --> 00:01:17,549 about an hour or half an hour I had what 18 00:01:22,249 --> 00:01:19,679 they called scripture at the time where 19 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:22,259 a religious representative would come in 20 00:01:27,620 --> 00:01:24,329 and well basically talk to us about 21 00:01:29,870 --> 00:01:27,630 religion in my case most of the time it 22 00:01:33,709 --> 00:01:29,880 was my own father who happened to be the 23 00:01:36,739 --> 00:01:33,719 local minister anyway that talk by Phil 24 00:01:38,839 --> 00:01:36,749 cam coming up soon and after that we 25 00:01:40,849 --> 00:01:38,849 have a clip from the 60 minutes program 26 00:01:43,969 --> 00:01:40,859 here in Australia who ran a story 27 00:01:46,819 --> 00:01:43,979 critical more than critical about the 28 00:01:50,359 --> 00:01:46,829 anti-vaccination movement the audio from 29 00:01:52,639 --> 00:01:50,369 this is just incredible here Veera 30 00:01:55,819 --> 00:01:52,649 schreibman and Bronwyn Hancock to 31 00:01:58,550 --> 00:01:55,829 staunch anti-vaxxers basically laying 32 00:02:02,089 --> 00:01:58,560 their cards on the table wait'll you 33 00:02:04,639 --> 00:02:02,099 hear this audio and to wind up the show 34 00:02:08,510 --> 00:02:04,649 we're going to have a complete change a 35 00:02:10,940 --> 00:02:08,520 completely different mindset Maynard's 36 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:10,950 going to speak to Bill Daley Bill Daley 37 00:02:16,550 --> 00:02:13,290 Bill Daley you ask who's bill daley Bill 38 00:02:17,510 --> 00:02:16,560 Daley better known as major Roger Healey 39 00:02:20,900 --> 00:02:17,520 from I jury 40 00:02:23,450 --> 00:02:20,910 of Jeannie yes I know it's left field 41 00:02:25,370 --> 00:02:23,460 it's a great interview just something a 42 00:02:26,930 --> 00:02:25,380 little light-hearted and that's followed 43 00:02:30,350 --> 00:02:26,940 by something even more lighthearted 44 00:02:34,030 --> 00:02:30,360 where may nod talks about global wind 45 00:02:37,370 --> 00:02:34,040 day something at the end of the show 46 00:02:38,390 --> 00:02:37,380 just to have a laugh well I'm going to 47 00:02:40,910 --> 00:02:38,400 have a laugh I'm going to race 48 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:40,920 downstairs grab another root beer have a 49 00:03:00,560 --> 00:02:44,850 laugh and let you listen to the skeptics 50 00:03:09,090 --> 00:03:03,960 now it's time for dr. Rachel reports 51 00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:09,100 with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello listeners 52 00:03:13,860 --> 00:03:12,160 and welcome to dr. Richie reports well 53 00:03:16,770 --> 00:03:13,870 this week I present for you part of a 54 00:03:19,050 --> 00:03:16,780 lecture given by dr. Barry Marshall now 55 00:03:21,449 --> 00:03:19,060 many of you may know this name he was 56 00:03:24,170 --> 00:03:21,459 awarded the nobel prize in physiology or 57 00:03:27,090 --> 00:03:24,180 medicine along with dr. robin warren in 58 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:27,100 2005 for his discovery that the 59 00:03:32,729 --> 00:03:29,650 bacterium hello back to pylori is the 60 00:03:34,740 --> 00:03:32,739 cause of most peptic ulcers now this 61 00:03:36,660 --> 00:03:34,750 finding reversed decades of medical 62 00:03:39,270 --> 00:03:36,670 doctrine which stated that alters were 63 00:03:43,110 --> 00:03:39,280 caused by stress spicy foods or too much 64 00:03:44,970 --> 00:03:43,120 acid now Barry Marshall is a native of 65 00:03:47,940 --> 00:03:44,980 Western Australia and he received his 66 00:03:50,180 --> 00:03:47,950 degree in surgery and medicine in 1975 67 00:03:52,500 --> 00:03:50,190 from the University of Western Australia 68 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:52,510 he currently holds a position of 69 00:03:57,960 --> 00:03:54,850 professor of clinical microbiology at 70 00:04:00,900 --> 00:03:57,970 the same University now along with the 71 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:00,910 Nobel Prize in 2005 Barry is a highly 72 00:04:04,949 --> 00:04:03,010 decorated physician who was also 73 00:04:08,340 --> 00:04:04,959 appointed a companion of the order of 74 00:04:09,990 --> 00:04:08,350 australia in 2007 has been awarded an 75 00:04:13,140 --> 00:04:10,000 honorary doctor of science from the 76 00:04:16,199 --> 00:04:13,150 University of Oxford in 2009 along with 77 00:04:17,909 --> 00:04:16,209 many and varied other awards the lecture 78 00:04:19,770 --> 00:04:17,919 you'll hear today is part of a talk that 79 00:04:21,270 --> 00:04:19,780 Barry gave at the dinner for the 80 00:04:24,210 --> 00:04:21,280 Australian science and medical research 81 00:04:26,700 --> 00:04:24,220 week celebrations held here in Sydney in 82 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:26,710 early June now I apologize for some 83 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:28,810 clinking cutlery and food noises at the 84 00:04:32,550 --> 00:04:30,970 beginning of this talk but it only lasts 85 00:04:34,650 --> 00:04:32,560 for a short time and I urge you to 86 00:04:37,530 --> 00:04:34,660 persist because the content is really 87 00:04:39,780 --> 00:04:37,540 really fascinating you'll also hear in 88 00:04:42,270 --> 00:04:39,790 this lecture Barry refer to a cartoon 89 00:04:44,730 --> 00:04:42,280 which depicts him drinking a flask full 90 00:04:47,159 --> 00:04:44,740 of green muck containing hello back to 91 00:04:49,980 --> 00:04:47,169 pylori in an effort to prove that it 92 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:49,990 actually causes stomach ulcers if you'd 93 00:04:54,300 --> 00:04:52,330 like to see the entire cartoon there's a 94 00:04:56,370 --> 00:04:54,310 link to the PDF in our newsletter for 95 00:04:58,800 --> 00:04:56,380 this week and you can find a link to the 96 00:05:01,620 --> 00:04:58,810 newsletter on dub dub dub skeptic zone 97 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:01,630 TV and if you're on twitter you can 98 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:05,090 follow Barry at be a rja 99 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:08,330 ma r or bar Gemma I hope you enjoyed 100 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:10,250 this lecture as much as I did and until 101 00:05:17,710 --> 00:05:12,290 next time this has been dr. Richie 102 00:05:21,100 --> 00:05:17,720 reports so we started Alfred Nobel 103 00:05:23,110 --> 00:05:21,110 displacement from his own biography and 104 00:05:26,950 --> 00:05:23,120 he was unwell all his life no he 105 00:05:28,330 --> 00:05:26,960 discovered he made nitroglycerin is to 106 00:05:31,270 --> 00:05:28,340 shift all around the world including 107 00:05:33,250 --> 00:05:31,280 Australia with dangerous everybody said 108 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:33,260 the opportunities and he came up with 109 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:35,810 the site by the nitroglycerin which was 110 00:05:39,820 --> 00:05:37,610 going to make it makes a good play and 111 00:05:42,430 --> 00:05:39,830 fuel oil or something and then he like 112 00:05:46,020 --> 00:05:42,440 plasticine but it doesn't go off whole 113 00:05:48,340 --> 00:05:46,030 time and he invented blasting caps and 114 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:48,350 safety fuse so with that combination 115 00:05:52,510 --> 00:05:50,090 which she praised everything at the 116 00:05:57,430 --> 00:05:52,520 novell dynamite company I think it still 117 00:06:00,070 --> 00:05:57,440 exists to this day and one or well but 118 00:06:02,740 --> 00:06:00,080 it was a big typhoon that really had no 119 00:06:05,110 --> 00:06:02,750 pleasure out of his rich mob killed of 120 00:06:07,300 --> 00:06:05,120 lifestyle because he could never enjoy a 121 00:06:09,219 --> 00:06:07,310 meal he always had to adjust stomach 122 00:06:11,830 --> 00:06:09,229 pain all the time i used to go after 123 00:06:14,469 --> 00:06:11,840 these mysterious water treatments in 124 00:06:17,980 --> 00:06:14,479 poland and radioactive water or all I 125 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:17,990 kind of stuff but nothing anybody didn't 126 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:21,410 play in do this to even notice so he 127 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:23,450 finally passed away well I think died 128 00:06:28,870 --> 00:06:26,330 from my he had a myocardial infarction 129 00:06:30,310 --> 00:06:28,880 and dryer and a stroke and that's 130 00:06:32,110 --> 00:06:30,320 actually what used to happen to people 131 00:06:34,089 --> 00:06:32,120 with ulcers because there would be one 132 00:06:36,850 --> 00:06:34,099 of these special diets course if he dies 133 00:06:39,129 --> 00:06:36,860 they would be treating cream and milk 134 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:39,139 and butter in kind of food instead of 135 00:06:43,540 --> 00:06:41,090 having a state they have to have east on 136 00:06:45,730 --> 00:06:43,550 a hay or whatever but all this creamy 137 00:06:48,339 --> 00:06:45,740 foods and so don't get accelerated 138 00:06:51,100 --> 00:06:48,349 atherosclerosis and people with offices 139 00:06:53,020 --> 00:06:51,110 to die often not from there also that 140 00:06:54,700 --> 00:06:53,030 I've after I sporadic disease so there 141 00:06:56,710 --> 00:06:54,710 was in the Lich's those losses 142 00:06:58,390 --> 00:06:56,720 mysterious connection so here's his 143 00:07:00,129 --> 00:06:58,400 biography and it said that he always 144 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:00,139 complained of indigestion headaches and 145 00:07:05,170 --> 00:07:03,289 occasional spells of depression and died 146 00:07:08,980 --> 00:07:05,180 he was overworked or under serious 147 00:07:10,750 --> 00:07:08,990 mental stress and so this is a strategy 148 00:07:12,279 --> 00:07:10,760 doctor to have for hundreds of years 149 00:07:13,779 --> 00:07:12,289 when you go to the doctor you can't 150 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:13,789 figure out what's wrong with you he 151 00:07:16,220 --> 00:07:15,770 doesn't tell you that these bits on 152 00:07:18,530 --> 00:07:16,230 success 153 00:07:20,180 --> 00:07:18,540 I think you're under serious mental 154 00:07:23,180 --> 00:07:20,190 stress and that is the cause of your 155 00:07:25,460 --> 00:07:23,190 illness so that then absolves him from 156 00:07:27,470 --> 00:07:25,470 Manning to make a proper diagnosis and 157 00:07:29,900 --> 00:07:27,480 puts the oddness of the treatment and 158 00:07:31,790 --> 00:07:29,910 the cure of the condition on you and you 159 00:07:33,380 --> 00:07:31,800 can't possibly get rid of the stress in 160 00:07:36,620 --> 00:07:33,390 your life we all have it is just a 161 00:07:38,770 --> 00:07:36,630 natural thing but now it's the problem 162 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:38,780 the reason he cannot fix your ulcer or 163 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:41,250 whatever it is irritable bowel would be 164 00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:42,690 good when I see in gastroenterology 165 00:07:47,450 --> 00:07:45,510 clinics is because you're under too much 166 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:47,460 stress and obviously I come fix that I'm 167 00:07:53,270 --> 00:07:49,410 just a doctor and it's your fault your 168 00:07:56,270 --> 00:07:53,280 problem so the classic quintessential 169 00:07:58,700 --> 00:07:56,280 stress disease which I love to bring 170 00:08:00,680 --> 00:07:58,710 down was actually peptic ulcer used to 171 00:08:03,410 --> 00:08:00,690 run in families but did have this 172 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:03,420 awesome personality if you had ulcers 173 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:04,970 but that was because the main 174 00:08:10,130 --> 00:08:08,610 tranquilizer food there is no work very 175 00:08:12,260 --> 00:08:10,140 well if you had an ulcer and so you 176 00:08:16,550 --> 00:08:12,270 would get this stressed hyperactive 177 00:08:18,590 --> 00:08:16,560 personality type a person ID I guess run 178 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:18,600 in families worse with smoking it would 179 00:08:23,090 --> 00:08:20,490 happen in the spring during the exam 180 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:23,100 time and why was that was it stress well 181 00:08:27,350 --> 00:08:24,810 when I was under stress during an exam 182 00:08:29,630 --> 00:08:27,360 time is to miss meals I would stay at 183 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:29,640 the dorm rooms rather than a time I'd be 184 00:08:33,500 --> 00:08:31,410 drinking coffee and a smoke e-cigarettes 185 00:08:35,540 --> 00:08:33,510 all night and all that kind of stuff so 186 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:35,550 I can see if I had a tendency to an 187 00:08:41,060 --> 00:08:38,010 ulcer I would develop it during exam 188 00:08:44,270 --> 00:08:41,070 time when I was in college and so this 189 00:08:46,820 --> 00:08:44,280 these seem depending and stress so now 190 00:08:48,500 --> 00:08:46,830 we know that stress didn't cause ulcers 191 00:08:51,140 --> 00:08:48,510 but it was very difficult to convince 192 00:08:55,430 --> 00:08:51,150 anybody that stressed in off course also 193 00:08:57,470 --> 00:08:55,440 is just as bacteria so in retrospect and 194 00:08:59,750 --> 00:08:57,480 you could do you know innate and 90 you 195 00:09:01,910 --> 00:08:59,760 couldn't do an endoscopy so the only way 196 00:09:04,820 --> 00:09:01,920 you could actually diagnosis was that 197 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:04,830 post-mortem so poor old Alfred I Valley 198 00:09:09,350 --> 00:09:06,330 didn't even have a post-mortem on that 199 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:09,360 think so they didn't really happen and 200 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:12,930 so in the 21st century stress is still a 201 00:09:17,990 --> 00:09:15,690 great excuse for idiopathic conditions 202 00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:18,000 and I say to young people in doing any 203 00:09:20,210 --> 00:09:18,510 research 204 00:09:22,550 --> 00:09:20,220 you ever go to a doctor and he says it's 205 00:09:25,070 --> 00:09:22,560 called my stress you're thinking in the 206 00:09:27,230 --> 00:09:25,080 back of my back your head if I find out 207 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:27,240 the real cause there's a Nobel Prize at 208 00:09:33,110 --> 00:09:30,930 math so this is why there's still a few 209 00:09:36,740 --> 00:09:33,120 Nobel prizes out there in clinical 210 00:09:39,740 --> 00:09:36,750 medicine why is it difficult to have new 211 00:09:42,890 --> 00:09:39,750 discoveries and new medical discoveries 212 00:09:45,740 --> 00:09:42,900 particularly accepted and the man if 213 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:45,750 that is Dan Boston who was the librarian 214 00:09:49,340 --> 00:09:47,610 for the US Congress and he said the 215 00:09:51,350 --> 00:09:49,350 greatest obstacle to knowledge it's not 216 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:51,360 ignorance it's the illusion of knowledge 217 00:09:55,250 --> 00:09:53,730 so if everybody thinks they already know 218 00:09:57,410 --> 00:09:55,260 the answer they're not looking for 219 00:09:59,570 --> 00:09:57,420 another answer and they're not receptive 220 00:10:01,970 --> 00:09:59,580 to the innovation that you're producing 221 00:10:03,860 --> 00:10:01,980 you're saying you create you're creating 222 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:03,870 an invention without a use or without 223 00:10:10,310 --> 00:10:06,930 any need to heaven and swords there 224 00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:10,320 we've got tagamet acid blockers we know 225 00:10:14,500 --> 00:10:12,510 stress causes ulcers too much acid we 226 00:10:16,820 --> 00:10:14,510 don't need another course which is this 227 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:16,830 bacteria which must be such the fine 228 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:20,010 print and I'm saying no no ninety-five 229 00:10:24,950 --> 00:10:22,530 percent of ulcers of these new bacterial 230 00:10:26,540 --> 00:10:24,960 ones they say get out of it so here's 231 00:10:28,430 --> 00:10:26,550 Warren's original observation the 232 00:10:30,940 --> 00:10:28,440 bacteria's sticking all over the cells 233 00:10:33,170 --> 00:10:30,950 of the stomach and it's the little black 234 00:10:34,670 --> 00:10:33,180 Helicobacter there so you can see you're 235 00:10:36,260 --> 00:10:34,680 a microbiologist you can see straight 236 00:10:38,420 --> 00:10:36,270 away that's a pure culture of bacteria 237 00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:38,430 they're not wash down there through 238 00:10:44,570 --> 00:10:42,000 email and this is what I look like this 239 00:10:46,670 --> 00:10:44,580 is a duodenal ulcer this is do it in la 240 00:10:48,980 --> 00:10:46,680 severe a bleeding potentially fatal 241 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:48,990 awesome and then here's a gastric ulcer 242 00:10:53,630 --> 00:10:50,730 in the stomach which could move right 243 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:53,640 through here peritonitis so Warren and I 244 00:10:58,970 --> 00:10:56,370 we started to find out who had these 245 00:11:01,760 --> 00:10:58,980 bacteria we looked at a hundred people 246 00:11:04,490 --> 00:11:01,770 who were coming to have the scope down 247 00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:04,500 for various conditions notice those we 248 00:11:07,850 --> 00:11:05,760 always used to have to have a hundred 249 00:11:09,860 --> 00:11:07,860 people in our clinical research because 250 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:09,870 we didn't have a computer but if we had 251 00:11:14,580 --> 00:11:11,370 a hundred in the study we could easily 252 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:14,590 say are you thirteen percent 253 00:11:19,410 --> 00:11:17,410 the a fifty eight percent so very easy 254 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:19,420 to get the tables correct with the 255 00:11:23,790 --> 00:11:21,610 government so fifty-eight percent had 256 00:11:26,910 --> 00:11:23,800 the bacteria but if you had a duodenal 257 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:26,920 also good hanging out of thirteen i 100% 258 00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:29,650 or gastric also seventy-seven percent so 259 00:11:34,350 --> 00:11:32,710 that was significantly different and so 260 00:11:36,900 --> 00:11:34,360 we had an association between the 261 00:11:38,670 --> 00:11:36,910 bacteria and ulcers but a very strong 262 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:38,680 association the only way you get a 263 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:40,170 hundred percent in any medical 264 00:11:44,460 --> 00:11:42,610 experiment is if you faked your results 265 00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:44,470 as far as i was concerned one hundred 266 00:11:51,150 --> 00:11:48,160 percent in any kind of data is rubbish 267 00:11:53,130 --> 00:11:51,160 and so we set out to find out what was 268 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:53,140 going on figure out why these bacteria 269 00:11:57,420 --> 00:11:55,690 can survive in answer to cetera and we 270 00:11:59,370 --> 00:11:57,430 try to publish it so that the question 271 00:12:02,280 --> 00:11:59,380 would be though on one side you've got 272 00:12:05,010 --> 00:12:02,290 these companies making three billion 273 00:12:07,410 --> 00:12:05,020 dollars a year global companies millions 274 00:12:09,090 --> 00:12:07,420 of people taking the medication stress 275 00:12:10,140 --> 00:12:09,100 cause i'll sit on the other side you've 276 00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:10,150 got two guys in western australia 277 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:11,950 publishing their first paper in The 278 00:12:16,950 --> 00:12:14,770 Lancet on the basis of thirteen patients 279 00:12:19,980 --> 00:12:16,960 would the world except that you cause 280 00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:19,990 for answers and so it's just no way but 281 00:12:24,450 --> 00:12:22,720 in my naivety I spoke to warrant at 282 00:12:25,980 --> 00:12:24,460 dinner one night and we reckoned we were 283 00:12:28,860 --> 00:12:25,990 going to win the Nobel Prize in about 284 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:28,870 nineteen eighty six we were not 285 00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:32,650 expecting a 20-year way so there we are 286 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:34,240 we did we were pretty confident because 287 00:12:39,630 --> 00:12:37,450 we found that other people had 288 00:12:43,620 --> 00:12:39,640 discovered stomach bacteria before and 289 00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:43,630 the famous one is this I saw sir Owen an 290 00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:46,000 anatomist and he actually studied the 291 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:47,710 red he figured out the red cells 292 00:12:52,020 --> 00:12:49,690 actually actually had nucleated 293 00:12:54,210 --> 00:12:52,030 precursors in the bone marrow so people 294 00:12:55,860 --> 00:12:54,220 used to say you don't need a nucleus to 295 00:12:57,510 --> 00:12:55,870 pepper dividing sell the rule of red 296 00:12:59,730 --> 00:12:57,520 cells and he said oh no they have 297 00:13:01,770 --> 00:12:59,740 nucleated red produced in the Mara so he 298 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:01,780 was already famous but the other thing 299 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:04,570 he said acid torrent spirochetes living 300 00:13:09,570 --> 00:13:07,210 the dog stomach so even a hundred years 301 00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:09,580 before we came on the scene was in the 302 00:13:14,220 --> 00:13:11,680 literature that bacteria could live in 303 00:13:16,770 --> 00:13:14,230 the stomach of animals like cats and 304 00:13:18,570 --> 00:13:16,780 dogs and kasasa wrote had shown that see 305 00:13:20,490 --> 00:13:18,580 the spirochetes they're inside Bryant 306 00:13:22,490 --> 00:13:20,500 ourselves anyway so we were fairly 307 00:13:24,130 --> 00:13:22,500 confident we submitted our paper to the 308 00:13:26,290 --> 00:13:24,140 Australian meeting 309 00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:26,300 and they wrote us a letter back saying 310 00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:28,790 Andy dr. Marshall we regret your 311 00:13:33,970 --> 00:13:30,560 research paper was not accepted for 312 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:33,980 presentation we didn't even get a poster 313 00:13:37,780 --> 00:13:36,170 the number of abstracts we receive 314 00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:37,790 continues to increase it for this 315 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:39,710 meeting 67 were submitted we could only 316 00:13:46,810 --> 00:13:42,530 accept 50 60 don't feel so bad then we 317 00:13:48,910 --> 00:13:46,820 wanted to that will worsen you of course 318 00:13:52,060 --> 00:13:48,920 I was pretty depressed about that but 319 00:13:54,630 --> 00:13:52,070 luckily I did keep that rejection letter 320 00:13:58,390 --> 00:13:54,640 so I say to young people in science 321 00:14:00,010 --> 00:13:58,400 extract rejection and keep that 322 00:14:02,290 --> 00:14:00,020 rejection letter you put it in a brown 323 00:14:04,750 --> 00:14:02,300 envelope keep it in the body draw of you 324 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:04,760 if you have your bedroom outdoor you 325 00:14:08,050 --> 00:14:06,050 don't have to read it it's too 326 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:08,060 depressing but keep it there because 327 00:14:12,930 --> 00:14:10,250 here's lay that you be able to show copy 328 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:12,940 of that lecture in your speech if you 329 00:14:17,830 --> 00:14:15,290 succeed and you turn out to be right 330 00:14:19,630 --> 00:14:17,840 unable to find a suitable animal model 331 00:14:23,050 --> 00:14:19,640 Marshall must experiment on himself this 332 00:14:24,970 --> 00:14:23,060 is a quote from is what a comment and 333 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:24,980 this is the product put out by the avid 334 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:27,290 company when we discovered the 335 00:14:31,330 --> 00:14:29,090 antibiotic that kills Helicobacter 336 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:31,340 clarithromycin they came to me and said 337 00:14:34,390 --> 00:14:33,050 what do you want to make this comic 338 00:14:35,770 --> 00:14:34,400 we're going to give it to every doctor 339 00:14:39,070 --> 00:14:35,780 in America so they know how to treat 340 00:14:41,290 --> 00:14:39,080 ulcers there's 150,000 copies some 341 00:14:43,150 --> 00:14:41,300 number like that anyway and they said 342 00:14:44,740 --> 00:14:43,160 the comic strip artist over to hit the 343 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:44,750 interview me and he was the same guy who 344 00:14:49,810 --> 00:14:46,970 does the incredible hulk for Marvel 345 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:49,820 Marvel Comics and so I didn't actually 346 00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:51,530 have to bust my tissue open or anything 347 00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:53,750 but I did have to drink a very green 348 00:14:58,210 --> 00:14:56,720 looking brew of helicobacter pylori the 349 00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:58,220 proved that could affect a healthy 350 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:01,120 person and course ulcers and so I 351 00:15:06,490 --> 00:15:04,250 surprisingly I did have an illness and 352 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:06,500 after five days of started vomiting and 353 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:09,410 that went on for a while I was getting 354 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:12,410 all worried about me and finally we took 355 00:15:18,820 --> 00:15:16,730 a biopsy and long behold very very yelps 356 00:15:21,010 --> 00:15:18,830 various very heavy infection with 357 00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:21,020 Helicobacter sigh had proved that normal 358 00:15:25,420 --> 00:15:22,910 person could catch these bacteria you 359 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:25,430 didn't have to have an ulcer first so it 360 00:15:29,710 --> 00:15:27,290 was possible bacteria came first and 361 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:29,720 they also came as a consequence and one 362 00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:30,730 thing led to another 363 00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:32,560 and that that was published as a 364 00:15:36,329 --> 00:15:34,240 hypothesis in the medical journal in 365 00:15:38,340 --> 00:15:36,339 Australia so the edge of medical journal 366 00:15:41,930 --> 00:15:38,350 Australia really stuck his neck out 367 00:15:45,509 --> 00:15:41,940 because it was ten years before people 368 00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:45,519 said it's true and then went back to the 369 00:15:51,629 --> 00:15:48,190 medical journals Australia and read it 370 00:15:56,129 --> 00:15:51,639 and it was exactly right and so that is 371 00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:56,139 the second most cited paper ever in the 372 00:15:59,160 --> 00:15:57,730 medical journal Australia they are the 373 00:16:02,069 --> 00:15:59,170 number one paper is actually the 374 00:16:04,170 --> 00:16:02,079 discovery of lithium or a manic 375 00:16:06,030 --> 00:16:04,180 depression so why did it take 23 years 376 00:16:09,269 --> 00:16:06,040 to win the Nobel verizon is an 377 00:16:11,550 --> 00:16:09,279 interesting coincidence not 1882 Robert 378 00:16:14,129 --> 00:16:11,560 cocky cultured the TB bacilli nobody 379 00:16:17,129 --> 00:16:14,139 believed that they caused DB go to 380 00:16:19,769 --> 00:16:17,139 comment so he did this anything 381 00:16:22,050 --> 00:16:19,779 experiment with any pics got TV after 382 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:22,060 being leavin the bacteria and he called 383 00:16:26,370 --> 00:16:24,130 that Koch's postulates the rules 384 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:26,380 required to prove bacterias harmful you 385 00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:30,370 know about that 1884 and then in 1905 he 386 00:16:39,150 --> 00:16:34,870 won the Nobel Prize for the infection TV 387 00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:39,160 and 1982 Warren and martial culture 388 00:16:44,370 --> 00:16:41,440 bacteria the first iconic effective 389 00:16:46,340 --> 00:16:44,380 pylori and it was nineteen eighty-four 390 00:16:49,410 --> 00:16:46,350 was the year that I Drake the bacteria 391 00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:49,420 100 years after Koch's postulates were 392 00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:51,310 described and so we think that 393 00:16:56,370 --> 00:16:55,120 karolinska committee giving the Nobel 394 00:16:58,290 --> 00:16:56,380 Prize they wanted to wait towards the 395 00:17:00,420 --> 00:16:58,300 hundredth anniversary of Robert cotton 396 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:00,430 people were they gave us out Nobel so 397 00:17:04,199 --> 00:17:02,290 it's not there wasn't a good one and 398 00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:04,209 said they'd like the history of it and 399 00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:19,260 you 400 00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:22,330 this is des Rochelle hosted skeptically 401 00:17:26,950 --> 00:17:24,470 speaking check out our website at 402 00:17:30,820 --> 00:17:26,960 skeptically speaking calm and listen to 403 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:30,830 us live on CJ SR 88.5 FM in Edmonton 404 00:17:45,460 --> 00:17:34,610 Alberta Canada I now return you to the 405 00:17:48,340 --> 00:17:45,470 skeptic zone professor Phil cam who is I 406 00:17:52,420 --> 00:17:48,350 think i could say single-handedly 407 00:17:54,130 --> 00:17:52,430 responsible for the ethics classes that 408 00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:54,140 are now being run in New South Wales 409 00:18:01,360 --> 00:17:57,440 schools at the time when kids would 410 00:18:03,250 --> 00:18:01,370 normally go to other religious education 411 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:03,260 classes a lot of kids obviously still do 412 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:06,410 or those who prefer not whose parents 413 00:18:10,450 --> 00:18:07,970 prefer for them not to go to religious 414 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:10,460 education classes would spend the time 415 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:12,410 at the library or doing all kinds of 416 00:18:14,980 --> 00:18:14,090 other boring things because they're not 417 00:18:19,090 --> 00:18:14,990 allowed to do anything productive 418 00:18:26,140 --> 00:18:19,100 otherwise without further ado I'll hand 419 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:29,600 thanks very much for that that's been 420 00:18:34,250 --> 00:18:31,410 told I've got about 20 minutes to talk 421 00:18:37,940 --> 00:18:34,260 to you and since I'm just recently back 422 00:18:40,970 --> 00:18:37,950 from Europe on a long flight with deep 423 00:18:43,370 --> 00:18:40,980 vein thrombosis and jabs all over the 424 00:18:45,170 --> 00:18:43,380 place and dosed up with stuff you'll 425 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:45,180 forgive me if I sort of wander in 426 00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:46,650 various ways but I try to do my best 427 00:18:51,860 --> 00:18:49,710 start topic the topic for tonight 428 00:18:54,890 --> 00:18:51,870 actually is that I've been asked to talk 429 00:18:58,970 --> 00:18:54,900 about is the ethics trial that was held 430 00:19:02,900 --> 00:18:58,980 in New South Wales at this time last 431 00:19:04,850 --> 00:19:02,910 year and as a result of which with some 432 00:19:07,940 --> 00:19:04,860 changes in the Education Act and a lot 433 00:19:11,810 --> 00:19:07,950 of pushing and shoving politically now 434 00:19:13,940 --> 00:19:11,820 continuing on in school system at least 435 00:19:17,780 --> 00:19:13,950 on a fledgling basis we'll see what 436 00:19:20,110 --> 00:19:17,790 happens as the new government sort of 437 00:19:22,820 --> 00:19:20,120 comes into its powers but let me go back 438 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:22,830 first of all just fill you in a little 439 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:24,930 bit on the background of this I know it 440 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:27,090 will be familiar to some people but I'm 441 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:29,490 sure it's not entirely familiar to 442 00:19:38,030 --> 00:19:35,130 others back in 2009 the San James ethic 443 00:19:41,650 --> 00:19:38,040 center here in Sydney approached me 444 00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:41,660 about the possibility of constructing a 445 00:19:48,620 --> 00:19:45,360 program of ethics for children in 446 00:19:52,390 --> 00:19:48,630 schools as a compliment that's what they 447 00:19:56,420 --> 00:19:52,400 called it to special religious education 448 00:19:58,610 --> 00:19:56,430 they approached me because I from the 449 00:20:01,030 --> 00:19:58,620 University of New South Wales I made a 450 00:20:03,020 --> 00:20:01,040 reputation over many years writing 451 00:20:04,490 --> 00:20:03,030 philosophy for children because I come 452 00:20:05,660 --> 00:20:04,500 from our school of actually these days 453 00:20:08,750 --> 00:20:05,670 history and philosophy but on a 454 00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:08,760 philosopher bite by profession and I've 455 00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:10,620 done a lot of work in in philosophy for 456 00:20:16,190 --> 00:20:12,510 children and written extensively for 457 00:20:18,260 --> 00:20:16,200 children and work with teachers both 458 00:20:20,930 --> 00:20:18,270 here and abroad so they thought I was a 459 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:20,940 person to ask about this and indeed i 460 00:20:28,030 --> 00:20:23,130 guess i was probably the person to ask 461 00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:28,040 but it turned out that this this project 462 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:30,960 as it transpired had all sorts of 463 00:20:36,620 --> 00:20:33,570 problems and issues i want to talk about 464 00:20:38,380 --> 00:20:36,630 some of those problems and issues after 465 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:38,390 I fill you in on the on the hist 466 00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:40,130 Markel background anyway so this in 467 00:20:44,890 --> 00:20:42,710 James ethics center people came to speak 468 00:20:47,770 --> 00:20:44,900 to me Simon Longstaff their director of 469 00:20:50,110 --> 00:20:47,780 the center and a couple of his officers 470 00:20:52,780 --> 00:20:50,120 came to speak to me and they had in fact 471 00:20:54,250 --> 00:20:52,790 approached previous administrations now 472 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:54,260 we're talking about the previous Labour 473 00:20:58,750 --> 00:20:56,770 government but they approached previous 474 00:21:00,610 --> 00:20:58,760 administrations I think they're on two 475 00:21:02,890 --> 00:21:00,620 occasions both of them labour actually 476 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:02,900 and had been turned down when they 477 00:21:07,570 --> 00:21:04,610 proposed that there might be something 478 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:07,580 for kids to do who don't go to Scripture 479 00:21:12,850 --> 00:21:09,170 as it's called special religious 480 00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:12,860 education held once a week now this 481 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:16,640 scripture period by the way is something 482 00:21:23,860 --> 00:21:19,970 of that goes right back to the education 483 00:21:27,220 --> 00:21:23,870 act so it's very very old and it prints 484 00:21:31,150 --> 00:21:27,230 a provision for recognized religious 485 00:21:33,130 --> 00:21:31,160 groups which recognized churches to have 486 00:21:36,430 --> 00:21:33,140 a provision for children in school of up 487 00:21:39,970 --> 00:21:36,440 to one hour up to one hour a week every 488 00:21:41,860 --> 00:21:39,980 week of the school year in fact it's 489 00:21:44,140 --> 00:21:41,870 very rare in fact I'm not sure it 490 00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:44,150 happens at all that any of the the 491 00:21:47,530 --> 00:21:45,710 churches they they have this one hour 492 00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:47,540 period it's usually more like half an 493 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:51,110 hour or 40 minutes but that's a regular 494 00:21:55,210 --> 00:21:52,730 feature as most of us were now in our 495 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:55,220 school system and and then the religious 496 00:22:00,340 --> 00:21:57,770 groups actually had that that slot to 497 00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:00,350 themselves children who don't go to 498 00:22:06,730 --> 00:22:03,710 Scripture well they have to be catered 499 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:06,740 for and it's usually a holding operation 500 00:22:10,870 --> 00:22:09,290 because there has been a long-standing I 501 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:10,880 don't know how far back it goes but has 502 00:22:15,580 --> 00:22:13,730 been a very long-standing policy of the 503 00:22:17,260 --> 00:22:15,590 Education Department the Department of 504 00:22:21,130 --> 00:22:17,270 Education and Training as it is these 505 00:22:24,340 --> 00:22:21,140 days that students are not to be offered 506 00:22:27,130 --> 00:22:24,350 anything or any instruction that is of 507 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:27,140 educational value in that period so the 508 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:30,290 kids who don't go to sre can get on with 509 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:32,570 reading or maybe what should be BD for 510 00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:34,130 the update time or whatever it is but 511 00:22:38,860 --> 00:22:36,320 they must not be given any instructional 512 00:22:42,990 --> 00:22:38,870 of everything of instructional value as 513 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:43,000 if it were necessary to add to that it 514 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:45,170 explicitly says in the departmental 515 00:22:47,670 --> 00:22:46,250 policy that they're not to be given 516 00:22:50,010 --> 00:22:47,680 ethics 517 00:22:51,210 --> 00:22:50,020 okay there are other things they're not 518 00:22:52,620 --> 00:22:51,220 to be given but they're not be given 519 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:52,630 anything but i've been especially not to 520 00:22:58,440 --> 00:22:56,410 be given ethics so that looked like 521 00:23:00,660 --> 00:22:58,450 something of a barrier to the proposal 522 00:23:02,310 --> 00:23:00,670 that the Sanjaya ethics Center had in 523 00:23:05,910 --> 00:23:02,320 mind and it's not surprising I suppose 524 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:05,920 in the light of that that they had been 525 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:08,530 turned down on two previous occasions so 526 00:23:13,770 --> 00:23:11,290 their request to me or they're coming to 527 00:23:17,250 --> 00:23:13,780 see me first of all was really about two 528 00:23:20,190 --> 00:23:17,260 things one was what would such a program 529 00:23:22,740 --> 00:23:20,200 of ethics for kids look like in your 530 00:23:24,660 --> 00:23:22,750 view how would you go about constructing 531 00:23:26,940 --> 00:23:24,670 or what would it look like what kind of 532 00:23:28,770 --> 00:23:26,950 educational outcomes would you know how 533 00:23:30,660 --> 00:23:28,780 would it be taught what would the 534 00:23:33,780 --> 00:23:30,670 lessons look like practical things like 535 00:23:35,790 --> 00:23:33,790 that but also how do you think we should 536 00:23:37,380 --> 00:23:35,800 you involved in education in various 537 00:23:38,910 --> 00:23:37,390 ways how do you think we should go about 538 00:23:42,090 --> 00:23:38,920 actually getting our foot in the door 539 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:42,100 and that second question actually is the 540 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:43,810 one to ask first because if you don't 541 00:23:47,820 --> 00:23:45,730 find out how the answer address that 542 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:47,830 question properly you no point in 543 00:23:50,940 --> 00:23:49,690 constructing all the lessons and what 544 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:50,950 worry about the pedagogy of how you 545 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:54,010 train teachers and so forth and I said 546 00:23:57,540 --> 00:23:55,930 well usually the way these things are 547 00:24:01,260 --> 00:23:57,550 done in education is actually through a 548 00:24:02,580 --> 00:24:01,270 pilot you have a pilot I mean it's got 549 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:02,590 going to be something very limited you 550 00:24:06,810 --> 00:24:04,210 just have a collection of schools you 551 00:24:09,930 --> 00:24:06,820 select them and appropriately maybe you 552 00:24:11,940 --> 00:24:09,940 run the thing for a term and so you've 553 00:24:14,490 --> 00:24:11,950 got a small smaller commitment and it's 554 00:24:17,670 --> 00:24:14,500 less threatening to the system because 555 00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:17,680 it's only initially temporary it's of 556 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:19,510 limited extent only a few schools were 557 00:24:23,730 --> 00:24:21,130 involved it's going to be subject to 558 00:24:25,650 --> 00:24:23,740 test and scrutiny which is important of 559 00:24:27,390 --> 00:24:25,660 course so you're not just coming and 560 00:24:28,740 --> 00:24:27,400 saying just open up your doors let's 561 00:24:31,020 --> 00:24:28,750 open up the floodgates and have 562 00:24:34,260 --> 00:24:31,030 something else you're saying let's take 563 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:34,270 a disciplined approach let's devise 564 00:24:40,770 --> 00:24:37,450 something especially for this trial and 565 00:24:42,750 --> 00:24:40,780 let's test it out the government has it 566 00:24:44,610 --> 00:24:42,760 turned out although it was rather weak 567 00:24:46,740 --> 00:24:44,620 kneed i think i should say that about 568 00:24:49,230 --> 00:24:46,750 this and even the minister verity fur 569 00:24:52,590 --> 00:24:49,240 through in the end was willing to 570 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:52,600 sanction this thing at the last eleventh 571 00:24:57,130 --> 00:24:54,610 hour about two minutes to midnight 572 00:25:02,420 --> 00:24:57,140 actually 573 00:25:05,930 --> 00:25:02,430 go-ahead for this to to to at least go 574 00:25:09,050 --> 00:25:05,940 to at the construction stage that 575 00:25:11,330 --> 00:25:09,060 construction stage evolved I was going 576 00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:11,340 to say getting advice from the 577 00:25:14,420 --> 00:25:12,840 department of education and training 578 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:14,430 whose officers from the board of studies 579 00:25:18,530 --> 00:25:16,530 in the curriculum Directorate went 580 00:25:22,370 --> 00:25:18,540 through the materials that I constructed 581 00:25:24,530 --> 00:25:22,380 with a fine-tooth comb and they took out 582 00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:24,540 anything they thought might be in any 583 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:27,120 way objectionable objectionable we write 584 00:25:31,820 --> 00:25:30,210 us to whom well basically true the 585 00:25:37,550 --> 00:25:31,830 religious authorities who were breathing 586 00:25:40,010 --> 00:25:37,560 down their necks the the the the church 587 00:25:42,700 --> 00:25:40,020 by tucka rious which actually is a body 588 00:25:45,460 --> 00:25:42,710 of into church body witches has 589 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:45,470 oversight a special religious education 590 00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:47,610 was breathing down their neck George 591 00:25:51,530 --> 00:25:49,370 Pell was breathing down their neck 592 00:25:54,140 --> 00:25:51,540 Jensen was breathing down their neck so 593 00:25:55,790 --> 00:25:54,150 we actually had some of the major 594 00:25:59,480 --> 00:25:55,800 religious authorities in town the 595 00:26:01,460 --> 00:25:59,490 blowing hot on this issue so 596 00:26:03,110 --> 00:26:01,470 nevertheless these meerut materials were 597 00:26:06,770 --> 00:26:03,120 constructed and I constructed the 598 00:26:08,570 --> 00:26:06,780 pedagogy for them and we were told by 599 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:08,580 the way just one other little detail 600 00:26:13,220 --> 00:26:10,650 that no teacher was allowed to teach 601 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:13,230 this which looks a bit of a problem if 602 00:26:16,610 --> 00:26:14,490 you're going to implement something in 603 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:16,620 the classroom but it turned out had to 604 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:19,410 be parents couldn't be teachers it 605 00:26:23,180 --> 00:26:20,850 couldn't be anyone in the employ of the 606 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:23,190 education the department of education 607 00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:24,930 and training at least not in employment 608 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:27,600 at that time in our part time they could 609 00:26:31,460 --> 00:26:29,370 perhaps do it as other but they had to 610 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:31,470 be parents so we had to feed take people 611 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:34,530 who are untrained as teachers and train 612 00:26:41,270 --> 00:26:37,290 them up yeah I had two days in which to 613 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:41,280 do this this is quite a feat you take 614 00:26:45,290 --> 00:26:42,570 people who have no background education 615 00:26:47,150 --> 00:26:45,300 many well-meaning parents often you know 616 00:26:50,210 --> 00:26:47,160 intelligent professional people but they 617 00:26:52,490 --> 00:26:50,220 had to be trained up to do their stick 618 00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:52,500 in the classroom in two days with a 619 00:26:56,810 --> 00:26:54,720 little bit of background support while 620 00:26:59,060 --> 00:26:56,820 they were doing it not much a little bit 621 00:27:03,770 --> 00:26:59,070 anyway so that was the way that things 622 00:27:05,420 --> 00:27:03,780 went and as you will know all of you or 623 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:05,430 no I suppose most people know certainly 624 00:27:08,290 --> 00:27:06,290 that 625 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:08,300 trial went ahead it was evaluated 626 00:27:12,220 --> 00:27:10,970 independently by the Education 627 00:27:13,930 --> 00:27:12,230 Department by getting an expert from 628 00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:13,940 South Australia and a team of people 629 00:27:19,540 --> 00:27:18,110 from their uni SI to actually come over 630 00:27:21,370 --> 00:27:19,550 and have a look at it and they looked at 631 00:27:23,740 --> 00:27:21,380 it a great deal of detail and wrote a 632 00:27:24,940 --> 00:27:23,750 lengthy report which is available on the 633 00:27:26,410 --> 00:27:24,950 department's website if you're 634 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:26,420 interested in it you can actually have a 635 00:27:33,670 --> 00:27:30,770 look at it there and basically the the 636 00:27:40,150 --> 00:27:33,680 pilot was given the big tick thumbs up 637 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:40,160 and that meant that the department was 638 00:27:45,340 --> 00:27:42,650 happy with it and the minister was in a 639 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:45,350 bit of a tight corner the rock and a 640 00:27:49,410 --> 00:27:47,090 parrot will rock in a hard place but in 641 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:49,420 the end as I say as you well know she 642 00:27:56,590 --> 00:27:54,410 eventually gave approval now that's just 643 00:27:59,380 --> 00:27:56,600 a bit of a quick thumbnail sketch of 644 00:28:00,490 --> 00:27:59,390 background for you the things I want 645 00:28:02,530 --> 00:28:00,500 that's not what I really want to talk 646 00:28:05,980 --> 00:28:02,540 about their there are other issues I 647 00:28:08,770 --> 00:28:05,990 want to talk about a couple of them let 648 00:28:11,170 --> 00:28:08,780 me just raise them for you and I'm going 649 00:28:12,460 --> 00:28:11,180 to just raise to I think second one I'm 650 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:12,470 going to raise I think it's actually the 651 00:28:17,170 --> 00:28:14,570 more important probably more interest 652 00:28:19,930 --> 00:28:17,180 more of interest to most of you but the 653 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:19,940 first one it seems to me is also of some 654 00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:26,330 import what would be the most important 655 00:28:32,020 --> 00:28:30,110 thing to motivate our this special 656 00:28:34,330 --> 00:28:32,030 intervention other words here you've got 657 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:34,340 a situation where you've got the 658 00:28:38,860 --> 00:28:36,410 majority of kids in most schools but the 659 00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:38,870 minority and son going to special 660 00:28:45,070 --> 00:28:42,080 religious education once a week in that 661 00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:45,080 a lot of time half an hour 40 minutes as 662 00:28:51,970 --> 00:28:47,840 I said for the most part where the other 663 00:28:55,300 --> 00:28:51,980 kids are to be given nothing now the 664 00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:55,310 question is is that discriminatory I 665 00:29:00,880 --> 00:28:59,120 mean are the other children who decide 666 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:00,890 or whose parents actually formally 667 00:29:06,390 --> 00:29:03,650 decide that they're not attending what's 668 00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:06,400 called scripture or sorry are those 669 00:29:12,130 --> 00:29:09,440 parents and children being discriminated 670 00:29:13,810 --> 00:29:12,140 against in some important way the 671 00:29:15,890 --> 00:29:13,820 argument from the Sun jamesy ethics 672 00:29:18,020 --> 00:29:15,900 center was that they were 673 00:29:19,940 --> 00:29:18,030 in fact the main line of argument that 674 00:29:23,470 --> 00:29:19,950 they run around in favor of this 675 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:23,480 especially intervention was that it was 676 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:26,250 to combat this discrimination that was 677 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:28,410 occurring in the schools and it's a 678 00:29:34,670 --> 00:29:31,650 really really important question is is 679 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:34,680 it discrimination and is it is it 680 00:29:40,190 --> 00:29:37,170 significantly serious so that the 681 00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:40,200 long-standing provision that's been 682 00:29:45,290 --> 00:29:42,240 there for the churches that it was built 683 00:29:49,010 --> 00:29:45,300 into the Education Act should be 684 00:29:50,930 --> 00:29:49,020 tampered with or overwritten you might 685 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:50,940 you might see by the way that of course 686 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:54,570 good behind all the different arguments 687 00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:56,850 mostly specious and often very very bad 688 00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:58,530 arguments by the way that were mounted 689 00:30:04,670 --> 00:30:00,960 by religious authorities against the 690 00:30:08,450 --> 00:30:04,680 trial behind them all was just it seems 691 00:30:10,490 --> 00:30:08,460 to be one worry and the way is obvious I 692 00:30:13,970 --> 00:30:10,500 think I with the arguments were just 693 00:30:17,090 --> 00:30:13,980 window dressing the worry was if you 694 00:30:20,390 --> 00:30:17,100 have a competitor in that slot where 695 00:30:23,210 --> 00:30:20,400 you've had none previously you might be 696 00:30:27,050 --> 00:30:23,220 losing bums on seats and this is a major 697 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:27,060 recruiting ground for churches then that 698 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:29,010 seems to me just kind of obvious and it 699 00:30:32,810 --> 00:30:30,570 was obvious enough whenever you can't 700 00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:32,820 have just looked through what all these 701 00:30:36,110 --> 00:30:34,320 try to listen through what people are 702 00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:36,120 arguing to what they were really on 703 00:30:42,110 --> 00:30:39,840 about so there you've got as it were 704 00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:42,120 when those away there you have a 705 00:30:47,420 --> 00:30:45,240 provision that's been made for important 706 00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:47,430 and powerful groups in society less 707 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:49,440 powerful than they once were but still 708 00:30:54,620 --> 00:30:52,770 quite powerful as proved to be the case 709 00:30:58,850 --> 00:30:54,630 in their debates and the pressure 710 00:31:01,100 --> 00:30:58,860 brought brought on government and then 711 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:01,110 you have a group of people who are now 712 00:31:05,690 --> 00:31:04,050 decide to step outside of that and again 713 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:05,700 getting no provision is that 714 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:08,850 discriminatory how do you how do you 715 00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:11,610 deal with this kind of this issue I mean 716 00:31:14,990 --> 00:31:13,110 it's a simple way of saying with you 717 00:31:17,210 --> 00:31:15,000 might just say well it is discriminatory 718 00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:17,220 and it should be rectified you know that 719 00:31:20,750 --> 00:31:19,260 privilege should be done away with but 720 00:31:22,550 --> 00:31:20,760 if you put yourself in the position of 721 00:31:23,690 --> 00:31:22,560 government or if you put yourself the 722 00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:23,700 position of the Education Department 723 00:31:29,130 --> 00:31:26,080 trying to manage this issue 724 00:31:31,380 --> 00:31:29,140 you can't just simply make a you know a 725 00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:31,390 quick decision like that it takes a 726 00:31:35,639 --> 00:31:33,600 great deal of thinking through the 727 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:35,649 second the second thing which is 728 00:31:40,409 --> 00:31:37,210 actually nearer to my heart and 729 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:40,419 interested me a great deal more was 730 00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:42,970 actually the form of instruction that's 731 00:31:47,250 --> 00:31:46,000 involved usually in what my day when I 732 00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:47,260 was a kid at school used to be called 733 00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:50,710 religious instruction and the words the 734 00:31:55,380 --> 00:31:53,200 word actually tells you something but 735 00:32:00,720 --> 00:31:55,390 special religious education is is called 736 00:32:02,669 --> 00:32:00,730 these days here there's that there's a 737 00:32:05,610 --> 00:32:02,679 form of Education involved in that a 738 00:32:09,180 --> 00:32:05,620 model of Education and actually an fact 739 00:32:12,029 --> 00:32:09,190 of ethical education in particular which 740 00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:12,039 is at loggerheads with the kind of 741 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:14,710 approach that I took which comes out of 742 00:32:20,250 --> 00:32:18,130 philosophy so let's have a quick look at 743 00:32:22,590 --> 00:32:20,260 these two different sorts of approaches 744 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:22,600 that I hope not to provide too much of a 745 00:32:30,180 --> 00:32:27,250 caricature of them first of all if you 746 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:30,190 look at religious education in special 747 00:32:37,230 --> 00:32:34,330 religious education it isn't first and 748 00:32:41,070 --> 00:32:37,240 foremost and certainly not only ethical 749 00:32:42,990 --> 00:32:41,080 education is religious education but 750 00:32:46,379 --> 00:32:43,000 religious education involves ethical 751 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:46,389 education just take some common things 752 00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:48,130 that are commonly known I just go to the 753 00:32:54,419 --> 00:32:50,320 Christian faith switch of the manger 754 00:32:57,450 --> 00:32:54,429 ones represented in our schools if you 755 00:32:59,639 --> 00:32:57,460 talk about the Ten Commandments there 756 00:33:01,740 --> 00:32:59,649 are moral code if you talk about the 757 00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:01,750 golden rule you know of the New 758 00:33:09,450 --> 00:33:05,049 Testament that's a moral preceptor or 759 00:33:12,509 --> 00:33:09,460 moral rule if you talk about moralizing 760 00:33:16,980 --> 00:33:12,519 well for example Bible stories of say 761 00:33:19,409 --> 00:33:16,990 the Good Samaritan is a moral tale and 762 00:33:21,149 --> 00:33:19,419 when you tell such a child you mark 763 00:33:24,299 --> 00:33:21,159 what's caught you you're doing what's 764 00:33:26,159 --> 00:33:24,309 called moralizing so what I'm saying is 765 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:26,169 that in fact when you kids are engaged 766 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:28,090 in special religious education they're 767 00:33:33,330 --> 00:33:30,610 actually getting by by moral education 768 00:33:36,510 --> 00:33:33,340 it comes with religion there comes with 769 00:33:37,919 --> 00:33:36,520 the field the question is however not 770 00:33:40,700 --> 00:33:37,929 that they're getting that but 771 00:33:42,899 --> 00:33:40,710 what form is it being delivered I mean 772 00:33:44,759 --> 00:33:42,909 technically we might think what's the 773 00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:44,769 pedagogy or what's that what was the 774 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:47,440 teaching mode that's involved in this 775 00:33:53,279 --> 00:33:50,610 will usually of course this instruction 776 00:33:56,940 --> 00:33:53,289 okay so first of all or it simply 777 00:34:01,470 --> 00:33:56,950 moralizing so if you tell a a moral 778 00:34:03,749 --> 00:34:01,480 story which has as it were a conclusion 779 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:03,759 to be drawn which is built into the into 780 00:34:11,700 --> 00:34:07,770 the story itself then that's moralizing 781 00:34:14,579 --> 00:34:11,710 i'm quite a fan of Aesop's fables but i 782 00:34:16,619 --> 00:34:14,589 never used them in my work in classrooms 783 00:34:18,659 --> 00:34:16,629 because they're actually morally 784 00:34:20,430 --> 00:34:18,669 directed their you meant to draw the 785 00:34:21,569 --> 00:34:20,440 moral that if the stories constructors 786 00:34:23,549 --> 00:34:21,579 that you draw the moment often in 787 00:34:27,240 --> 00:34:23,559 Aesop's fables the bold is explicitly 788 00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:27,250 drawn at the end okay that's so 789 00:34:32,790 --> 00:34:30,250 moralizing and instruction in an ethical 790 00:34:37,950 --> 00:34:32,800 code is a certain way of trying to 791 00:34:39,869 --> 00:34:37,960 deliver a education a completely 792 00:34:42,899 --> 00:34:39,879 different tradition in this which is 793 00:34:44,700 --> 00:34:42,909 also venerable is what I would call the 794 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:44,710 philosophical tradition particularly the 795 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:47,770 one famously in the history of western 796 00:34:51,569 --> 00:34:49,690 philosophy associated with Socrates the 797 00:34:56,369 --> 00:34:51,579 Socratic tradition the Socratic 798 00:34:58,680 --> 00:34:56,379 tradition is one of moral inquiry now a 799 00:35:02,160 --> 00:34:58,690 moral inquiry whatever else it involves 800 00:35:05,210 --> 00:35:02,170 is isn't the teacher actually imparting 801 00:35:08,250 --> 00:35:05,220 a class set of codes to the student or 802 00:35:10,859 --> 00:35:08,260 teaching them a moral lesson it's 803 00:35:13,170 --> 00:35:10,869 bringing them to think about moral 804 00:35:16,490 --> 00:35:13,180 issues or moral problems a moral 805 00:35:20,970 --> 00:35:16,500 concepts and ideas and to be able to 806 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:20,980 evaluate them to have clear notions of 807 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:24,490 them to be able to to work with them and 808 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:27,970 to be able to adjudged them and in 809 00:35:31,950 --> 00:35:29,890 simple ways of course with children 810 00:35:35,069 --> 00:35:31,960 particularly by the way the children the 811 00:35:36,780 --> 00:35:35,079 trial we use five and six okay so we 812 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:36,790 talked at eleven and twelve year olds 813 00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:38,650 we're not talking about them actually 814 00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:40,720 going into the annals of philosophy and 815 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:42,910 trying to discover what a manual can't 816 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:46,290 said about the categorical imperative 817 00:35:51,050 --> 00:35:48,330 but on the other hand kids are trying to 818 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:51,060 think about the importance of rules and 819 00:35:55,900 --> 00:35:53,370 where rules for example might come into 820 00:35:58,190 --> 00:35:55,910 conflict and what you do about that or 821 00:36:01,400 --> 00:35:58,200 about the difference between thinking 822 00:36:02,780 --> 00:36:01,410 about intentions and consequences you 823 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:02,790 know how important these two different 824 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:04,290 kinds of things are in different 825 00:36:09,770 --> 00:36:06,330 contexts of their lives where they can 826 00:36:11,690 --> 00:36:09,780 appreciate the importance of these and 827 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:11,700 the difficulties that they sometimes in 828 00:36:17,060 --> 00:36:15,330 tile and for them to do this together to 829 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:17,070 in order to think things through for 830 00:36:23,330 --> 00:36:19,530 example to explore their differences of 831 00:36:26,420 --> 00:36:23,340 opinion and understanding that kind of 832 00:36:29,300 --> 00:36:26,430 approach is very very different from the 833 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:29,310 approach that says well we already have 834 00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:30,690 the moral knowledge and it's just a 835 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:32,250 matter of imparting it to you and will 836 00:36:39,710 --> 00:36:36,410 impart it to you by instruction or by 837 00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:39,720 moralizing now that's quick and rough 838 00:36:44,990 --> 00:36:42,960 but it seemed to me quite evident in 839 00:36:47,540 --> 00:36:45,000 what I could see of what was going on in 840 00:36:49,490 --> 00:36:47,550 schools in special religious education 841 00:36:51,980 --> 00:36:49,500 and in the presumptions that were 842 00:36:55,100 --> 00:36:51,990 brought to the debate in the public 843 00:36:57,710 --> 00:36:55,110 arena that there were two very very 844 00:37:00,530 --> 00:36:57,720 different traditions here at loggerheads 845 00:37:02,780 --> 00:37:00,540 with one another okay the tradition if I 846 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:02,790 can call the moral instruction and the 847 00:37:09,020 --> 00:37:06,930 tradition of moral inquiry and I think 848 00:37:11,060 --> 00:37:09,030 in the end this is a vitally important 849 00:37:13,630 --> 00:37:11,070 issue because in fact these are just 850 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:13,640 about special religious education any 851 00:37:19,010 --> 00:37:16,530 compliments that might be put up against 852 00:37:21,350 --> 00:37:19,020 it for kids who don't go to Scripture it 853 00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:21,360 actually has to do with how we work 854 00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:23,520 through problems and issues of a moral 855 00:37:30,110 --> 00:37:26,400 nature in society and indeed more 856 00:37:33,020 --> 00:37:30,120 broadly how we come to knowledge and 857 00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:33,030 understanding in general and whether 858 00:37:36,380 --> 00:37:34,560 these things can be given to us by 859 00:37:38,780 --> 00:37:36,390 authority and whether they are to be 860 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:38,790 handed down on a platter or whether we 861 00:37:42,140 --> 00:37:40,530 need to think these things through for 862 00:37:46,670 --> 00:37:42,150 ourselves and whether we're going to be 863 00:37:50,090 --> 00:37:46,680 given the wherewithal to do so so that's 864 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:50,100 a really big educational and social 865 00:37:58,579 --> 00:37:54,090 issue and it seems to me that in the in 866 00:38:00,440 --> 00:37:58,589 the discussions of the pilot 867 00:38:02,359 --> 00:38:00,450 we had last year particularly the media 868 00:38:05,269 --> 00:38:02,369 but that issue was there but it was 869 00:38:12,319 --> 00:38:05,279 never really clearly identified and 870 00:38:16,249 --> 00:38:12,329 articulated and it needs to be so okay 871 00:38:18,229 --> 00:38:16,259 I've got about two minutes so at the 872 00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:18,239 moment just to go back to the history 873 00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:21,839 page we have this kind of fledgling 874 00:38:29,420 --> 00:38:25,200 effort in schools there is now a body 875 00:38:32,989 --> 00:38:29,430 called primary ethics which has been set 876 00:38:35,299 --> 00:38:32,999 up to develop that program further I 877 00:38:37,459 --> 00:38:35,309 extended the pilot program which was 878 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:37,469 written just for one term as a trial to 879 00:38:42,650 --> 00:38:39,450 two terms and that's currently being 880 00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:42,660 used in schools this year I don't know 881 00:38:46,339 --> 00:38:43,920 really what's happening in the second 882 00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:46,349 half of the year but the whole thing it 883 00:38:53,450 --> 00:38:49,680 seems to me is still open to further 884 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:53,460 debate and political maneuvering by the 885 00:38:58,940 --> 00:38:56,729 current government and i think that 886 00:39:01,759 --> 00:38:58,950 there's probably room for a great deal 887 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:01,769 more discussion to come on this matter 888 00:39:08,180 --> 00:39:04,890 and insofar as that's the case i would 889 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:08,190 really like to see their these issues 890 00:39:12,559 --> 00:39:10,170 that I've rat two issues I've raised 891 00:39:13,999 --> 00:39:12,569 tonight actually have some prominence in 892 00:39:16,279 --> 00:39:14,009 the discussion and particularly the 893 00:39:19,999 --> 00:39:16,289 second one because it seems to me that 894 00:39:23,690 --> 00:39:20,009 that issue is so really important to all 895 00:39:26,829 --> 00:39:23,700 of us about as I would say in the large 896 00:39:31,519 --> 00:39:26,839 scheme of things what is knowledge and 897 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:31,529 how can we properly come by it and if we 898 00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:34,410 don't address that issue in education we 899 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:49,200 are you sick of pseudoscience of the 900 00:39:54,060 --> 00:39:51,970 paranormal dominating popular media fed 901 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:54,070 up with being surrounded by spiritualism 902 00:39:59,820 --> 00:39:56,890 and relentless religiousness pneus yeah 903 00:40:02,250 --> 00:39:59,830 me too or you can do something about it 904 00:40:04,890 --> 00:40:02,260 help support the brand near flim-flam 905 00:40:06,540 --> 00:40:04,900 comic a weekly online comic strip that 906 00:40:09,660 --> 00:40:06,550 promotes critical thinking through a 907 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:09,670 quirky cartoons and hilarious jokes the 908 00:40:13,980 --> 00:40:11,530 more skeptical media we share with the 909 00:40:16,170 --> 00:40:13,990 world the better it's none for profit so 910 00:40:19,820 --> 00:40:16,180 we need your help go to flim-flam 911 00:40:24,420 --> 00:40:19,830 possible comdata you that's flim-flam 912 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:24,430 poz IB le Comte you you can contribute 913 00:40:34,970 --> 00:40:27,010 there let's spread critical thinking in 914 00:40:38,510 --> 00:40:36,950 Australian skeptics have always 915 00:40:41,060 --> 00:40:38,520 maintained that groups like the 916 00:40:45,020 --> 00:40:41,070 Australian vaccination network are not 917 00:40:48,380 --> 00:40:45,030 in fact pro-choice but are dedicated to 918 00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:48,390 the anti-vaccination stand while this is 919 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:50,160 still the official position of the 920 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:52,170 Australian vaccination Network other 921 00:40:58,340 --> 00:40:54,810 anti-vaccination campaigners aren't so 922 00:41:00,200 --> 00:40:58,350 shy Vera shramana and Bronwyn Hancock 923 00:41:03,170 --> 00:41:00,210 were recently interviewed on the 60 924 00:41:05,870 --> 00:41:03,180 minutes program here in Australia there 925 00:41:08,900 --> 00:41:05,880 a straightener by the way one the 1997 926 00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:08,910 Australian skeptics bent spoon award for 927 00:41:12,500 --> 00:41:10,140 the most preposterous piece of 928 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:12,510 paranormal or pseudo-scientific piffle 929 00:41:19,340 --> 00:41:16,170 in that year in this interview of Irish 930 00:41:23,450 --> 00:41:19,350 writer and Bronwyn Hancock leave nothing 931 00:41:27,770 --> 00:41:23,460 to the imagination they make it clear 932 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:27,780 beyond any doubt what so ever that they 933 00:41:33,700 --> 00:41:30,330 are anti-vaccination that vaccinations 934 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:33,710 are only harmful and diseases are good 935 00:41:40,670 --> 00:41:36,290 you don't have to take my word for it 936 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:40,680 here is the audio based on my extensive 937 00:41:45,740 --> 00:41:42,810 research of Orthodox medical literature 938 00:41:47,690 --> 00:41:45,750 I am totally against any vaccinations 939 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:47,700 having anything good to say about back 940 00:41:54,490 --> 00:41:51,330 saying no because the immunity is 941 00:41:57,830 --> 00:41:54,500 achieved by going through the natural 942 00:42:01,870 --> 00:41:57,840 infectious diseases of childhood such as 943 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:01,880 measles whooping cough mumps rubella so 944 00:42:09,170 --> 00:42:05,010 vaccines are dangerous and diseases are 945 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:09,180 good exactly you right here that the 946 00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:11,490 body only catches a disease if it needs 947 00:42:16,460 --> 00:42:14,400 to so all those polio and measles 948 00:42:18,590 --> 00:42:16,470 epidemics problem the kids their bodies 949 00:42:23,540 --> 00:42:18,600 wanted to catch those diseases did they 950 00:42:25,099 --> 00:42:23,550 there are benefits of diseases now I say 951 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:25,109 that with qualification because 952 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:28,050 obviously diseases have to be well 953 00:42:32,510 --> 00:42:29,970 managed and going through a disease is 954 00:42:35,060 --> 00:42:32,520 like us getting exercise this is one of 955 00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:35,070 the reasons why it's good to get Rebello 956 00:42:40,010 --> 00:42:37,440 as soon as possible so that you have in 957 00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:40,020 the energy too much and what about the 958 00:42:43,730 --> 00:42:41,730 risk of rubella to pregnant women who 959 00:42:45,590 --> 00:42:43,740 can have babies suffering terrible birth 960 00:42:47,930 --> 00:42:45,600 defect don't answer things that you 961 00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:47,940 don't know enough 962 00:42:52,610 --> 00:42:50,730 about okay just don't answer them you 963 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:52,620 were drowning so let's call spade a 964 00:42:58,010 --> 00:42:56,010 spade I see she was drowning yet why 965 00:42:59,900 --> 00:42:58,020 would why would she be drowning because 966 00:43:02,450 --> 00:42:59,910 she hasn't got the extent of knowledge 967 00:43:03,890 --> 00:43:02,460 that I have I'll share some of the 968 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:03,900 estate of not if she hasn't got the 969 00:43:07,340 --> 00:43:05,970 extensive knowledge why on earth is she 970 00:43:09,170 --> 00:43:07,350 writing these articles on the way 971 00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:09,180 they'll have a point there yes that's 972 00:43:13,460 --> 00:43:11,250 right maybe you have a point today okay 973 00:43:15,410 --> 00:43:13,470 so just for clarity you are not a 974 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:15,420 medical doctor I'm not a medical doctor 975 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:19,290 no but I am a doctor of natural sciences 976 00:43:24,590 --> 00:43:21,690 am I right in thinking that infect your 977 00:43:27,470 --> 00:43:24,600 expertise is in studying microfossils 978 00:43:30,050 --> 00:43:27,480 little fossils my expertise is in many 979 00:43:32,420 --> 00:43:30,060 areas one of them was microscopic my 980 00:43:34,850 --> 00:43:32,430 fossils but actually just for the record 981 00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:34,860 you have no formal medical training I 982 00:43:40,340 --> 00:43:37,440 wouldn't say that because I did a course 983 00:43:42,350 --> 00:43:40,350 of nursing when I was young but do you 984 00:43:44,570 --> 00:43:42,360 believe you know more than most doctors 985 00:43:46,940 --> 00:43:44,580 yes I believe I know more than most 986 00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:46,950 doctors vaccination of any kind of 987 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:49,440 causes autism so only children who are 988 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:52,890 vaccinated get autism that's right yes 989 00:43:58,370 --> 00:43:55,170 it's a heck of a story it is a heck of a 990 00:44:00,410 --> 00:43:58,380 story yes and how do you know they died 991 00:44:01,790 --> 00:44:00,420 from whooping cough these children went 992 00:44:03,710 --> 00:44:01,800 to hospital and the doctors there 993 00:44:05,570 --> 00:44:03,720 diagnose them with whooping cough I 994 00:44:08,210 --> 00:44:05,580 don't think there's any doubt if the 995 00:44:10,310 --> 00:44:08,220 child was given hepatitis B adverse it 996 00:44:13,370 --> 00:44:10,320 certainly suppressed in its immune 997 00:44:15,380 --> 00:44:13,380 system and made it very susceptible to 998 00:44:17,570 --> 00:44:15,390 catching whooping cough from people 999 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:17,580 around their days because their parents 1000 00:44:23,180 --> 00:44:19,650 immunize them at birth against hepatitis 1001 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:23,190 B that's right absolutely because 1002 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:25,890 vaccines are the single any vaccines are 1003 00:44:30,140 --> 00:44:27,330 the single biggest cause of infant 1004 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:30,150 deaths those mothers have no knowledge 1005 00:44:34,310 --> 00:44:32,490 to judge the case they only listen to 1006 00:44:36,380 --> 00:44:34,320 what doctors tell them and of course the 1007 00:44:39,650 --> 00:44:36,390 doctors are only too happy to start 1008 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:39,660 blaming the disease instead of their 1009 00:44:44,930 --> 00:44:42,810 vaccines can I put it to you both that 1010 00:44:46,490 --> 00:44:44,940 maybe not from malicious intent that the 1011 00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:46,500 two of you are involved in a conspiracy 1012 00:44:52,370 --> 00:44:50,160 to cover up the plain fact that infants 1013 00:44:54,530 --> 00:44:52,380 die an agonizing death from whooping 1014 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:54,540 cough that you absolutely not and I am 1015 00:44:59,870 --> 00:44:56,370 walking out of this because this is a 1016 00:45:00,600 --> 00:44:59,880 farce but how about you put me in touch 1017 00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:00,610 with those 1018 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:02,590 parents I will ask them relevant 1019 00:45:06,210 --> 00:45:04,450 questions to establish the whole medical 1020 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:06,220 history of these children and then we 1021 00:45:09,990 --> 00:45:08,170 shall see what they really died off and 1022 00:45:12,540 --> 00:45:10,000 then I don't accept any accusations from 1023 00:45:17,810 --> 00:45:12,550 you or anybody else are we doing 1024 00:45:25,140 --> 00:45:21,270 if I was to say anything good about Vera 1025 00:45:28,170 --> 00:45:25,150 schreibman and Bronwyn Hancock is well 1026 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:28,180 at least they are honest about it at 1027 00:45:32,490 --> 00:45:30,130 least I have laid their cards on the 1028 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:32,500 table to let us know and like other 1029 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:35,770 groups who pretend that they are 1030 00:45:41,580 --> 00:45:38,890 pro-choice well done 60 minutes for 1031 00:45:50,089 --> 00:45:41,590 giving these people enough rope to hang 1032 00:45:54,749 --> 00:45:52,920 hey guys this is jay from the skeptics 1033 00:45:57,539 --> 00:45:54,759 guide to the universe er well hold on 1034 00:45:59,309 --> 00:45:57,549 whoa everybody knows I'm the only reason 1035 00:46:00,480 --> 00:45:59,319 to listen to the freakshow right I mean 1036 00:46:07,230 --> 00:46:00,490 if it was up to me the show would start 1037 00:46:09,150 --> 00:46:07,240 with this yeah boy well Rebecca would 1038 00:46:10,859 --> 00:46:09,160 hate that probably but I mean I'd rock 1039 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:10,869 that listen to our show and you can 1040 00:46:13,559 --> 00:46:11,890 learn about cool stuff like a 1041 00:46:15,329 --> 00:46:13,569 technological singularity which is 1042 00:46:16,829 --> 00:46:15,339 someday when technology progresses so 1043 00:46:18,210 --> 00:46:16,839 fast that it would make the Industrial 1044 00:46:21,269 --> 00:46:18,220 Revolution look like a kid science 1045 00:46:38,750 --> 00:46:21,279 project anyway come check us out at WWDC 1046 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:47,029 bye 1047 00:46:51,390 --> 00:46:49,890 ladies and gentlemen TV fans our world 1048 00:46:53,849 --> 00:46:51,400 over I have on the phone a man who's 1049 00:46:55,979 --> 00:46:53,859 going to be in Australia for supernova 1050 00:46:57,870 --> 00:46:55,989 in June at the Dome in Sydney is to 1051 00:46:59,549 --> 00:46:57,880 build a lil as I like to refer to him 1052 00:47:01,680 --> 00:46:59,559 and many people do a further in this 1053 00:47:04,199 --> 00:47:01,690 that would be a major Roger Healey 1054 00:47:06,329 --> 00:47:04,209 welcome thank you what I'm gonna 1055 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:06,339 identificar like that thank you oh look 1056 00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:07,930 and of course you haven't just done that 1057 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:09,609 throughout your life I'd like to ask you 1058 00:47:14,579 --> 00:47:11,410 a lot of questions like heard you were 1059 00:47:16,650 --> 00:47:14,589 in Korea fighting in an artillery unit 1060 00:47:18,420 --> 00:47:16,660 in you as in your youth and then you got 1061 00:47:19,949 --> 00:47:18,430 into the entertainment unit that sounds 1062 00:47:22,499 --> 00:47:19,959 like a great wrought how did you do that 1063 00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:22,509 bill hi there do remember way back that 1064 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:24,249 was nineteen fifty i worked at the best 1065 00:47:28,019 --> 00:47:26,170 hospitals it's okay because i was in the 1066 00:47:31,349 --> 00:47:28,029 world during get 50 the funny thing is 1067 00:47:32,910 --> 00:47:31,359 is with a pretty good job position and 1068 00:47:35,309 --> 00:47:32,920 then i was in the army and they were 1069 00:47:37,829 --> 00:47:35,319 going to send me over to Japan and I 1070 00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:37,839 with a special super school and I forget 1071 00:47:42,029 --> 00:47:39,910 i'll be in Japan they needed 20 thousand 1072 00:47:45,029 --> 00:47:42,039 guys and artillery and they sent me over 1073 00:47:46,890 --> 00:47:45,039 the korean artillery I'd oh my gosh what 1074 00:47:48,689 --> 00:47:46,900 is this and I don't know what I was 1075 00:47:51,150 --> 00:47:48,699 doing but two can t know before your 1076 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:51,160 time with a famous Gordian player he 1077 00:47:55,319 --> 00:47:52,930 came to town I said him with them and he 1078 00:47:57,359 --> 00:47:55,329 took me back to Seoul got in the truck 1079 00:47:59,279 --> 00:47:57,369 and went closes it the lines I've ever 1080 00:48:01,890 --> 00:47:59,289 been there if we entertain a whole town 1081 00:48:04,079 --> 00:48:01,900 was gone up but it was a great great two 1082 00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:04,089 years of my life the best two years ever 1083 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:06,160 of my life is it strange that will you 1084 00:48:09,660 --> 00:48:07,930 be you'll be traveling throughout your 1085 00:48:11,130 --> 00:48:09,670 life and someone will recognize you in a 1086 00:48:12,689 --> 00:48:11,140 really weird out-of-the-way place and 1087 00:48:15,689 --> 00:48:12,699 you just got no idea how they know you 1088 00:48:18,029 --> 00:48:15,699 but I love it I love it no I mean here 1089 00:48:20,219 --> 00:48:18,039 everywhere I mean I had the nice but I 1090 00:48:22,289 --> 00:48:20,229 mean the people tell you not be like 84 1091 00:48:24,749 --> 00:48:22,299 to half hour then people come up and 1092 00:48:26,939 --> 00:48:24,759 tell you that you're great i mean it 1093 00:48:29,819 --> 00:48:26,949 just all these autograph things we go to 1094 00:48:31,949 --> 00:48:29,829 it just it's just unbelievable and i'm 1095 00:48:33,779 --> 00:48:31,959 going over there and i dying to get that 1096 00:48:35,969 --> 00:48:33,789 can't wait to go to Australia I mean oh 1097 00:48:38,279 --> 00:48:35,979 man this is the most exciting time I 1098 00:48:39,989 --> 00:48:38,289 might I really mean it and now I know 1099 00:48:42,689 --> 00:48:39,999 Larry Hagman and barbara eden coming 1100 00:48:44,789 --> 00:48:42,699 with you yeah yeah there she wrote a 1101 00:48:46,469 --> 00:48:44,799 book I don't she had a two things about 1102 00:48:48,150 --> 00:48:46,479 Larry tell you about his early life I 1103 00:48:50,039 --> 00:48:48,160 think he might have been upset because 1104 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:50,049 she said that he was quite upset about 1105 00:48:54,779 --> 00:48:53,170 that but but he at the beginning he 1106 00:48:56,579 --> 00:48:54,789 might have a few problems without Larry 1107 00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:56,589 that when their dinner show because he 1108 00:48:58,900 --> 00:48:56,960 was there 1109 00:49:01,839 --> 00:48:58,910 to create a director and he had this 1110 00:49:04,630 --> 00:49:01,849 energy guy was just absolutely brilliant 1111 00:49:07,300 --> 00:49:04,640 but uh it was just looking good thank 1112 00:49:08,950 --> 00:49:07,310 God for him as a kid growing up I you 1113 00:49:10,450 --> 00:49:08,960 know there was a anthony tony nelson 1114 00:49:11,980 --> 00:49:10,460 that was larry hagman he had the genie 1115 00:49:14,109 --> 00:49:11,990 had the problems he had things going on 1116 00:49:16,420 --> 00:49:14,119 all the time but Roger who was an Army 1117 00:49:18,970 --> 00:49:16,430 Major by the uniform would turn up in 1118 00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:18,980 the fantastic poor you no one knows that 1119 00:49:21,849 --> 00:49:20,510 by the way that yeah look that's the 1120 00:49:23,589 --> 00:49:21,859 thing and although they didn't actually 1121 00:49:25,450 --> 00:49:23,599 have I met army majors in the NASA 1122 00:49:27,190 --> 00:49:25,460 program until the early 70s but we don't 1123 00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:27,200 care about that bill it's fiction it's 1124 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:28,970 great and you would turn up in your 1125 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:30,650 convertible you'd have a beautiful 1126 00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:32,330 blonde with you you'd have a cocktail in 1127 00:49:34,900 --> 00:49:33,680 one hand because apparently you could 1128 00:49:38,230 --> 00:49:34,910 drink and drive at that time in 1129 00:49:39,670 --> 00:49:38,240 California and oh flock and smoke and 1130 00:49:41,530 --> 00:49:39,680 that's right people would smoke on 1131 00:49:43,329 --> 00:49:41,540 Jeannie and you'd turn up and you'd be 1132 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:43,339 going off to some party and Tony could 1133 00:49:47,170 --> 00:49:44,690 never go because there was some accident 1134 00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:47,180 he was it was dressed as a as a as a 1135 00:49:50,079 --> 00:49:48,650 Kalahari Bushmen or something and II 1136 00:49:52,060 --> 00:49:50,089 couldn't go and you went off and had the 1137 00:49:53,620 --> 00:49:52,070 great life and you were the guy I liked 1138 00:49:55,839 --> 00:49:53,630 in that show cuz you are always having a 1139 00:49:57,220 --> 00:49:55,849 good time well that was really me yeah i 1140 00:49:59,650 --> 00:49:57,230 thought we're doing a real picture 1141 00:50:01,839 --> 00:49:59,660 purple and pink Rosby i was doing bible 1142 00:50:03,910 --> 00:50:01,849 in fact was the greatest moments of my 1143 00:50:05,770 --> 00:50:03,920 life when I was right to Steve Allen he 1144 00:50:08,530 --> 00:50:05,780 would all have his piece big-time 1145 00:50:10,540 --> 00:50:08,540 comedians at his party and Jack Benny I 1146 00:50:15,970 --> 00:50:10,550 mean a powerful talked in and looked at 1147 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:15,980 me said are you doing me yes God and I 1148 00:50:20,260 --> 00:50:18,530 was very powerful and Bing Crosby got oh 1149 00:50:22,839 --> 00:50:20,270 so that's it there's one question about 1150 00:50:25,329 --> 00:50:22,849 are the I Dream of Jeannie set now I've 1151 00:50:27,190 --> 00:50:25,339 got a photo of the inside of barber 1152 00:50:28,839 --> 00:50:27,200 edens bottle there the set that was the 1153 00:50:30,670 --> 00:50:28,849 inside of her genie bottle and I've 1154 00:50:32,530 --> 00:50:30,680 looked at it and it looked like it might 1155 00:50:34,359 --> 00:50:32,540 not have smelt that great what did the 1156 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:34,369 inside of Barbara Eden's genie bottle 1157 00:50:39,940 --> 00:50:36,530 smell like on the set I always gotta 1158 00:50:41,770 --> 00:50:39,950 light a match because it looked it 1159 00:50:43,660 --> 00:50:41,780 looked a bit moldy it look like we're 1160 00:50:45,010 --> 00:50:43,670 better you know Adam Western Robin used 1161 00:50:46,750 --> 00:50:45,020 to go when they went down the bat-pole 1162 00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:46,760 and look like an area that didn't get 1163 00:50:56,140 --> 00:50:53,359 swept out a lot you know yeah and you 1164 00:50:59,500 --> 00:50:56,150 you were right I your homework look 1165 00:51:01,390 --> 00:50:59,510 amazing and look like Larry Hagman 1166 00:51:02,859 --> 00:51:01,400 you're a damn good-looking tart guy at 1167 00:51:04,599 --> 00:51:02,869 the time did you ever do any modeling or 1168 00:51:05,950 --> 00:51:04,609 stuff I mean they you need to stand up 1169 00:51:07,540 --> 00:51:05,960 in the comedy but like you're a 1170 00:51:10,180 --> 00:51:07,550 good-looking guy you and Larry Hagman 1171 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:10,190 could've done modeling work as well 1172 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:11,450 I don't know about that mean Larry 1173 00:51:14,830 --> 00:51:13,490 versus you know I don't know if we could 1174 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:14,840 have been done bother kind of thought of 1175 00:51:18,940 --> 00:51:17,210 myself as that but that's a in high 1176 00:51:22,270 --> 00:51:18,950 school my hair was boarded when was 1177 00:51:23,890 --> 00:51:22,280 likely to recede we used to pencil are 1178 00:51:25,930 --> 00:51:23,900 here to take nine hours Larry and I to 1179 00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:25,940 put there I still have one hair left on 1180 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:27,890 now you know I'm doing a show called my 1181 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:31,490 three hairs I where's your book bill Wiz 1182 00:51:35,380 --> 00:51:33,530 you book well you know I would never do 1183 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:35,390 partners fighting one I just talked to 1184 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:37,370 my son he's doing a film in taos great 1185 00:51:42,820 --> 00:51:38,930 time here so great he's gonna be with me 1186 00:51:45,010 --> 00:51:42,830 I an outdoor turkey but it can't I would 1187 00:51:47,050 --> 00:51:45,020 never hurt anybody and if you can't just 1188 00:51:48,490 --> 00:51:47,060 like Barbara I oh she's coming up really 1189 00:51:50,500 --> 00:51:48,500 all these things that she's going to 1190 00:51:53,410 --> 00:51:50,510 work with them and all these things I 1191 00:51:55,990 --> 00:51:53,420 would never ever ever think and I got 1192 00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:56,000 some stories that are just unbelievable 1193 00:52:00,940 --> 00:51:57,650 but I wouldn't do it and it might get 1194 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:00,950 retreat it I mean I would I'm gonna 1195 00:52:03,370 --> 00:52:02,330 catch up with you it's super nova 1196 00:52:05,020 --> 00:52:03,380 definitely we're gonna have a bit more 1197 00:52:06,070 --> 00:52:05,030 of an intense chat there when you're in 1198 00:52:07,660 --> 00:52:06,080 sydney at the dome i'll be looking 1199 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:07,670 forward to that but what do you think 1200 00:52:11,590 --> 00:52:10,130 was the strangest episode of i dream of 1201 00:52:13,540 --> 00:52:11,600 jeannie that you did because there was 1202 00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:13,550 some unusual slapstick blah i'm 1203 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:15,170 particularly the last season there was 1204 00:52:18,430 --> 00:52:16,610 some really wacky stuff going on is 1205 00:52:21,190 --> 00:52:18,440 there one where you were doing it you 1206 00:52:23,140 --> 00:52:21,200 thought wow this is really odd well you 1207 00:52:25,420 --> 00:52:23,150 know i like the thing is I never done 1208 00:52:27,580 --> 00:52:25,430 anything before but after what I like 1209 00:52:29,740 --> 00:52:27,590 when I didn't note that there was a 1210 00:52:31,540 --> 00:52:29,750 genie and my favorite scenes ever were 1211 00:52:33,580 --> 00:52:31,550 on the professor on the boat she 1212 00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:33,590 disappeared they think he killed her and 1213 00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:35,690 he says to me I want you to go home I 1214 00:52:41,950 --> 00:52:39,440 was his talks at all and he said what do 1215 00:52:44,140 --> 00:52:41,960 you want this day was tell the walls I 1216 00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:44,150 love her now desperate and I got an 1217 00:52:47,830 --> 00:52:45,770 ember in the heart I'm doing this thing 1218 00:52:49,780 --> 00:52:47,840 and dr. bill isn't back and I'm telling 1219 00:52:51,580 --> 00:52:49,790 talking of the wall and that was a great 1220 00:52:53,350 --> 00:52:51,590 comment i'm from because i didn't know 1221 00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:53,360 there was a genie and that was my 1222 00:52:57,700 --> 00:52:56,000 favorite all that was on first one no in 1223 00:53:00,580 --> 00:52:57,710 fact me a new heart writing was just 1224 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:00,590 beyond brilliant and there's I mean that 1225 00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:04,130 that was those guys did they took taxi 1226 00:53:08,410 --> 00:53:06,710 they did cheers that I mean that that 1227 00:53:11,220 --> 00:53:08,420 writing was brilliant and Suzanne 1228 00:53:15,250 --> 00:53:11,230 percent I mean come on give me a break 1229 00:53:17,110 --> 00:53:15,260 and there was some episodes of Jeannie 1230 00:53:18,730 --> 00:53:17,120 where you actually got control of 1231 00:53:21,010 --> 00:53:18,740 Jeannie for that episode you became her 1232 00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:21,020 master and we saw a very dark side of 1233 00:53:23,610 --> 00:53:23,090 Roger Healey he suddenly became a very 1234 00:53:25,700 --> 00:53:23,620 greedy 1235 00:53:29,310 --> 00:53:25,710 egomaniac I want to take over the world 1236 00:53:32,070 --> 00:53:29,320 what I was playing by self playing with 1237 00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:32,080 myself the time bill daley I look 1238 00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:34,210 forward to seeing you at target magic 1239 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:36,250 Danny all right look look look look I'm 1240 00:53:39,180 --> 00:53:37,930 gonna bring photos books and things for 1241 00:53:40,770 --> 00:53:39,190 you to sign and we're gonna we're going 1242 00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:40,780 to chat till your ears bleed at 1243 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:42,370 supernova bill i look forward to seeing 1244 00:53:46,740 --> 00:53:45,010 you then and maybe a stubby still got 1245 00:53:48,810 --> 00:53:46,750 that convertible from the 60s look at 1246 00:53:50,970 --> 00:53:48,820 that great 60s convertible that was a 1247 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:50,980 delegate there was a 90 I saw the 1248 00:53:56,460 --> 00:53:54,130 four-point a thousand dollars mr. Shelby 1249 00:53:59,100 --> 00:53:56,470 i paid forty four thousand paid for it 1250 00:54:02,040 --> 00:53:59,110 hello I rabbit know that get one mind 1251 00:54:05,460 --> 00:54:02,050 one mile out per kelvin okay i just want 1252 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:05,470 a great dog and um and you know i just 1253 00:54:08,850 --> 00:54:07,210 can't wait to see you guys out I can't 1254 00:54:11,820 --> 00:54:08,860 wait to be in Australia I'm so excited 1255 00:54:12,990 --> 00:54:11,830 I'm just coming over here right thank 1256 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:13,000 you very much for your time and I will 1257 00:54:29,660 --> 00:54:15,330 see you there bill and great to talking 1258 00:54:34,050 --> 00:54:32,010 astronomy cast it takes a fact space 1259 00:54:35,790 --> 00:54:34,060 journey through the cosmos as it offers 1260 00:54:38,460 --> 00:54:35,800 listeners weekly discussions on 1261 00:54:41,370 --> 00:54:38,470 astronomical topics ranging from planets 1262 00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:41,380 to cosmology hosted by Fraser Cain of 1263 00:54:44,700 --> 00:54:43,839 Universe Today and myself dr. Pamela gay 1264 00:54:47,370 --> 00:54:44,710 of southern illinois university 1265 00:54:49,230 --> 00:54:47,380 edwardsville this show brings the 1266 00:54:51,660 --> 00:54:49,240 questions of an avid astronomy lover 1267 00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:51,670 directly to an astronomer together 1268 00:54:55,290 --> 00:54:53,770 Fraser and I explore what is known and 1269 00:54:58,050 --> 00:54:55,300 being discovered about the universe 1270 00:55:00,150 --> 00:54:58,060 around us join us each week as we take a 1271 00:55:12,670 --> 00:55:00,160 fax space journey through the cosmos at 1272 00:55:18,730 --> 00:55:15,250 how do you feel about global win on this 1273 00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:18,740 day I feel very fond of global windows 1274 00:55:23,530 --> 00:55:21,680 it's an important part of our culture 1275 00:55:25,270 --> 00:55:23,540 and I'm glad that it's getting the 1276 00:55:27,339 --> 00:55:25,280 recognition it deserves and what did you 1277 00:55:29,140 --> 00:55:27,349 do to to mark this day last year and 1278 00:55:32,079 --> 00:55:29,150 this year again some sort of party 1279 00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:32,089 planned okay party actually would you be 1280 00:55:36,819 --> 00:55:33,530 the kind of person who would put a wind 1281 00:55:38,890 --> 00:55:36,829 power thing out in their backyard um no 1282 00:55:40,990 --> 00:55:38,900 I don't care about the environment that 1283 00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:41,000 much just nice to have a day where you 1284 00:55:45,730 --> 00:55:43,250 can just talk about wind without fear or 1285 00:55:47,559 --> 00:55:45,740 favour yeah just a day though don't go 1286 00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:47,569 too over the top oh no well you would 1287 00:55:50,410 --> 00:55:48,650 want to go and make it a whole week and 1288 00:55:52,329 --> 00:55:50,420 that would just be ridiculous yeah would 1289 00:55:55,930 --> 00:55:52,339 it get a little tiresome how about that 1290 00:55:58,829 --> 00:55:55,940 ash cloud global wind day over some of 1291 00:56:02,410 --> 00:55:58,839 that here I'm looking at some tub shrubs 1292 00:56:04,270 --> 00:56:02,420 23 meters bending wildly in my direction 1293 00:56:07,180 --> 00:56:04,280 how do you normally commemorate 1294 00:56:09,339 --> 00:56:07,190 International a global wind day there's 1295 00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:09,349 sort of bawling my body up on the floor 1296 00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:13,010 with both clenched fist above the base 1297 00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:16,250 of my skull in a fetal position sort of 1298 00:56:20,859 --> 00:56:18,530 yeah and if I can crawl underneath a 1299 00:56:22,690 --> 00:56:20,869 small table as well that'd be good to 1300 00:56:25,390 --> 00:56:22,700 kind of duck and cover so this is like 1301 00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:25,400 cyclone practice you bet I like to get 1302 00:56:32,799 --> 00:56:27,770 um a small supply of a crumpet and 1303 00:56:35,140 --> 00:56:32,809 crackers around me as well possibly some 1304 00:56:36,309 --> 00:56:35,150 tomatoes in a paring knife you must 1305 00:56:38,589 --> 00:56:36,319 really look forward to the first things 1306 00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:38,599 of June every year yes I say I do I 1307 00:56:42,940 --> 00:56:40,970 shall I do and of course when it comes 1308 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:42,950 to global wind day there's only one man 1309 00:56:46,299 --> 00:56:44,690 who would want to be represented at the 1310 00:56:48,099 --> 00:56:46,309 front of that particular crowd with his 1311 00:56:50,740 --> 00:56:48,109 sandwich board saying give me more wind 1312 00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:50,750 that'll be Tim Ferguson mer wind more 1313 00:56:55,809 --> 00:56:53,450 wind to the sales already on two sheets 1314 00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:55,819 to the wind I want to get three sheets 1315 00:57:01,780 --> 00:56:57,770 up there and Russell Crowe on the 1316 00:57:04,930 --> 00:57:01,790 lookout regard for years I was joining 1317 00:57:08,170 --> 00:57:04,940 marches saying stop the wind no more 1318 00:57:10,270 --> 00:57:08,180 wind band the wind but these days I've 1319 00:57:12,339 --> 00:57:10,280 changed I've become you know a total 1320 00:57:15,670 --> 00:57:12,349 greenie and I think more wind wind 1321 00:57:17,380 --> 00:57:15,680 faster and wetter than ever before is 1322 00:57:19,870 --> 00:57:17,390 what we need how does your normal 1323 00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:19,880 routine deviate for global wind day well 1324 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:21,650 of course you have to put on a flowery 1325 00:57:28,220 --> 00:57:26,370 flimsy dress and a moo moo oh yeah 1326 00:57:30,890 --> 00:57:28,230 ooh that's good and you have to wander 1327 00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:30,900 through park singing songs like lalala 1328 00:57:35,870 --> 00:57:34,050 and hey nonny nonny nonny you're the 1329 00:57:38,810 --> 00:57:35,880 kind of person it might just build some 1330 00:57:41,390 --> 00:57:38,820 sort of a wind generation device in your 1331 00:57:42,830 --> 00:57:41,400 backyard merely for the fact that you 1332 00:57:45,890 --> 00:57:42,840 can mock your neighbors that have only 1333 00:57:48,110 --> 00:57:45,900 got solar well I think it's only fair to 1334 00:57:50,780 --> 00:57:48,120 mock my neighbors who only have solar 1335 00:57:52,940 --> 00:57:50,790 because you know what went they standing 1336 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:52,950 outside and feeling the wind not only 1337 00:57:57,860 --> 00:57:55,890 will I have a big fan making lots of 1338 00:58:00,920 --> 00:57:57,870 noise in the back of my win and killing 1339 00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:00,930 which tailed eagle but I will also have 1340 00:58:05,780 --> 00:58:03,810 a wind sock and then I think all 1341 00:58:28,060 --> 00:58:05,790 Australians can finally say we are 1342 00:58:32,660 --> 00:58:31,130 hi I'm audit oh yeah Kristen or even 1343 00:58:34,940 --> 00:58:32,670 tipsy died so much glitter of a skeptic 1344 00:58:36,620 --> 00:58:34,950 zone um skeptic Amira in la liga the 1345 00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:36,630 VINs not a blog gear or pub def a 1346 00:58:40,910 --> 00:58:38,610 podcast of reading and skip sistema 1347 00:58:42,650 --> 00:58:40,920 Schlichten this drama central data skips 1348 00:58:44,390 --> 00:58:42,660 a stall demo or higher publicize the 1349 00:58:46,370 --> 00:58:44,400 deeps con our Chiclets and calendar / 1350 00:58:47,810 --> 00:58:46,380 activity or link eternity research it 1351 00:58:49,100 --> 00:58:47,820 escapes his blog in of totality I'm 1352 00:58:50,900 --> 00:58:49,110 Leigh autodesk it Harris hefty 1353 00:59:08,890 --> 00:58:50,910 performance so sticky lon 0 Delta do 1354 00:59:13,549 --> 00:59:11,209 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1355 00:59:17,900 --> 00:59:13,559 zone what a strange show that was what a 1356 00:59:21,859 --> 00:59:17,910 mixed bag of different things now as it 1357 00:59:24,529 --> 00:59:21,869 happens our main art and I went to the 1358 00:59:27,499 --> 00:59:24,539 supernova science fiction festival here 1359 00:59:29,569 --> 00:59:27,509 in Sydney just today and next week we're 1360 00:59:31,459 --> 00:59:29,579 going to play some clips from our little 1361 00:59:34,849 --> 00:59:31,469 adventure out there we even bumped into 1362 00:59:37,430 --> 00:59:34,859 some skeptics own fans all good fun but 1363 00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:37,440 for now this is Richard Saunders signing 1364 00:59:46,700 --> 00:59:43,410 off from Sydney Australia you've been 1365 00:59:51,229 --> 00:59:46,710 listening to the skeptic zone visitor 1366 00:59:53,719 --> 00:59:51,239 hub website at www skeptics on TV for